Spirit2 - SPM4651T - Kolibri 90LV - ESC won't arm - SOLVED

[Desmohead]

I THINK I've solved this. See the last post for the solution.

Henseleit TDSF
Spirit 2 (firmware v3.3.2 and now v3.3.3) not using governor mode
Spektrum SPM4651T (SRXL2 using Spirit cable)
Kolibri 90 LV (2.1 firmware) using Mode 4 governor mode

Hello! I have had about 10 wonderfully successful flights with the above configuration. At about the fifth flight, getting the Kolibri to arm at power up (make tones, count cells, etc) became sporadic until at about the 10th flight, it wouldnt arm at all. While, the steps I've taken are outlined below, I'm starting to think my issue may be somewhere with the Spirit 2. I have have had 2 Kolibris evaluated by Kontronik service (one US, One in Germany) and both have tested OK. Neither of them will arm when plugged into the Spirit 2. Both WILL arm and perform perfectly if plugged into my spare AR7700 receiver. I'm looking for any advice at all. Thank you in advance!

Steps taken:

Note - It's important to know that all of this worked perfectly for a time.

1) On my model, the Spirit2 is powered by the BEC on the Kolibri. Even though the Kolibri will not arm, the Spirit2 and the attached SPM4651T power up, initialize and operate normally. The Kolibri makes no tones however and flashes a single led. (the Kolibri manual indicates that a single flashing LED with no tones indicates an internal motor connection issue and suggests the esc be sent in fo repair.

2) I verified through the spirit diagnostics tab that my throttle channel was assigned (channel 1), sub trims were set to 0 and that the throttle travel was adjusted so that the diagnostics tab showed 0-100% travel.

3) I then verified that all of my connections were good. I reflowed all solder joints measuring the resulting connections with a meter to show that there is virtually no resistance. I also tested the windings on the motor to ensure that there was continuity and no resistance. (I have no means to measure impedance).

4) I sent the Kolibri in for repair but upon evaluation by Kontronik service, no fault was found. I then plugged the returned Kolibri back into the Spirit 2 but had the same result. No tones and a single flashing LED.

5) I then bound an AR7700 receiver to my transmitter and plugged the Kolibri into it. The Kolibri initializes and arms every time and operates the motor normally. When plugged into the Spirit2, it will not however.

6) I plugged the Kolibri back into the AR7700, initialized it and entered programming mode to perform a mode 1 (APM) reset. This was performed successfully. I also programmed the Kolibri for Mode 4. This also went successfully.

7) Plugging the freshly reset and programed Kolibri back into the the Spirit2 still produced the same issue. No tones, single flashing LED.

8) I started to think that perhaps the PWM from the AR7700 at low throttle was different from the PWM from the Spirit 2 at low throttle. I don't have a means to measure this but I looked online and found that the AR7700 should produce PWM at 1100us-1900us. The throttle page off the General tab in the Spirit software showed that my Spirit2 was set a 60Hz, 1120us-1920us PWM. I changed these settings to 1100us-1900us, saved to the unit successfully and restarted everything but sadly. it made no difference.

9) I read somewhere that the PWM should be 1000us-2000us. I tried that config. It made no difference.

10) I've updated to v3.3.3 of the Spirit firmware - no difference

11) I created a brand new model in my transmitter (getting desperate) - no difference

12) I plugged a spare servo into the throttle channel on the AR7700 and made note of its operation and the range of motion. I then plugged that same servo into the Spirit2 Aux1 port (used for the Kolibri Master) and it worked fine with the same motions.

13) I tried binding the AR7700 in 22ms vs. 11ms frame rates (the Kolibri works with either), I then bound the SPM4651T in 22ms and 11ms (what I was flying) but the Koilibri won't arm in either.

14) I'm out of ideas

Has anyone run into anything like this? I'd love some advice on what else to try. The worst part about this is that those first 10 flights were A M A Z I N G.... The Spirit flies beautifully!! My new favorite! I really appreciate any and all thoughts!


Thanks!

-Eric

[ZeXx86]

Hello,

first from all it is important to not connect AR7700 and SPM4651T at the same time.
These receivers should not be connected together.

Please make sure that ESC is connected at the AUX port first.
And that Throttle frequency is set to 60Hz in the Spirit unit - General tab - Governor/Throttle.

If all this is set, then it is enough to change Throttle Range - Min. until ESC will arm.
It might be not 1000us, but rather around 1100us.
I would try values from 900 - 1200us and it will work for sure.

When you will connect a servo to AUX port temporarily, you should see how throttle channel is behaving.

[Desmohead]

Thank you very much for your reply. I think i need to be more clear about my configuration. The only receiver connected to the Spirit2 unit is the 4651T. I used the AR7700 receiver separately only for testing purposes. I never connected the AR7700 to the Spirit2. In fact, I think that if I did, it would cause a problem since the AR7700 is SRXL and the 4651 is SRXL2. I don't think you can mix them.

Heli config:

4651 RX -------srxl2 over Spirit 2 adapter------>Spirit2 fbl--------->Kolibri 90lv (on Aux1)

Test config:

AR7700 (with rx battery pack) -------->Kolibri 90lv


I will try even lower pulse widths than 1000us to see if it will arm. What's interesting is that for a time, the esc would arm at 1120us (default). I understand that there is some drift in the pulse widths sometimes so if 1100us worked it would make sense as it's no too far off. I will certainly try though.

Thank you again!

-Eric

[ZeXx86]

The issue can happen if you will recalibrate the throttle range in the ESC. This could be done with receiver.
Then if you will connect it to FBL unit it will not match and you will have to re-set throttle range there.

[Desmohead]

Thank you again for your reply. Yes, I had expected that the esc throttle end-points would be reset. Here are the steps I have taken:

1) I set a 0-100 linear throttle curve with 100 100 throttle travel and 0 subtrims on my transmitter. I bound this model to my AR7700

2) I connected the Kolibri to the AR7700 and powered it and the esc up though a flight pack (using the BEC to power the rx). All initialized normally and the esc armed. (Tones and cell count).

3) With the throttle stick in the low position, I pressed the Kolibri programming button. The Kolibri went into programing mode.

4) After hearing a single tone (mode 1 tone) I raised the throttle to full throttle and left it there. I heard a confirmation ascending tone and then a single tone. I powered down the esc.

5) I repeated step 4 but this time I waited until I heard four tones (mode 4 tone) before I raised the throttle to full throttle. I heard the confirmation tones, etc. I then powered it down.

6) At this point I feel I had successfully performed a mode 1 reset of the ESC and programmed mode 4. In doing so I had set the throttle endpoints on the Kolibri to the standard endpoints output by the AR7700 receiver. Looking this specification up online, I read that the AR7700 would produce pulses with 1100us width at Low Throttle and 1900us at High throttle.

7) I powered my Spirit2 up with the programming adapter in place to see what the throttle PWM settings were in the Throttle settings section of the General tab. They were set to 1120us and 1920us respectively.

8) I adjusted the values to 1100us and 1900us, saved the settings to the Spirit2 using the backup tab. The settings were savedsuccessfully. I then powered the Spirit2 down.

9) I connected the master esc wire to Aux 1 on the spirit2. Switched models back to the 4651T in my transmitter. placed the throttle stick in the low position (I had set a 0-100 linear throttle curve, 100 100 throttle travel and 0 subtrims in my transmitter previously) and powered the kolibri, Spirit2 and 4651T up with a flight pack through using the BEC. The Spirit2 initialized normally, The 4651T powered up fine and works normally but the ESC did not initialize nor will it arm. Single flashing LED, no tones.


I cannot reset the Kolibri while connected to the Spirit2 because it will not initialize or arm when connected there and therefore I cannot put it in programming mode. I have tried using the programming unit for the Kolibri to reset it while connected to the Spirit2 but, while it reads the settings ok, it doesnt reset the ESC. I "think" the only way to reset the kolibri is with the Mode 1 APM reset stick method.

I will try further experimentation with the Throttle PWM settings from 900-1200us as you suggested but, in 10us increments, that will take me a bit of time.

I would also like to try a non-SRXL2 receiver. It's pure speculation but, I think my problem may be there.


Thank you for your continued help! I really appreciate your advice.


-Eric

[ZeXx86]

Thanks for the details.

Can you share your settings file please?

[Desmohead]

Of course! Thank you!

-Eric

[Desmohead]

More testing. More Interesting results. Why I want an oscilloscope for Christmas

I ran through some additional test cases this morning with some interesting results.

Test Cases Evaluated:

1) Trying a different non-SRXL2 receiver

2) Trying a different Spektrum transmitter

Steps Taken:

Trying a different non-SRXL2 receiver

1) I bound a spare SPM9645 DSMX Satellite receiver to the original TDSF model in my transmitter which was previously bound to the SPM4651T. The SPM9645 was connected to the Sat1 port on the Spirit2

2) I powered up the Sprit2 with a receiver back and reconfigured it for DMS2/DSMX in the General tab. Saved my settings and rebooted the Spirit. Servos worked normally.

3) I re-entered the Spirit2 configuration and assigned the throttle channel so channel 1, saved and reset the the Spirit2. All saved successfully.

4) I powered up the Kolibri/Spirit2/SPM9645 with a flight pack. The esc would not arm, single flashing LED as always..

I walked away from that test scenario thinking that changing the RX made no difference.

On to the next test.

Trying a different Spektrum transmitter

1) I left the SPM9645 connected to the Spirit2. I put it in bind mode (binding through the Spirit2) but this time, I bound it to a new model on my Horus X12S running OpenTx with an iRangeX + module. All bound fine. Servos worked, I powered down

2) I removed the bind plug and powered the Kolibri up with a flight pack and voila, the esc armed! Tones, cell count, all fine. I made note that on the Horus (According to OpenTX), the PWM at low throttle was 966us.

This was really interesting to me. I had not changed the PWM settings in the Throttle section of the Spirit2. It was set at 1100us Low but it armed.. I thought about how the low throttle PWM from the transmitter might affect the arming of the ESC. The Spirit2 documentation is clear that you need to be sure that in the diagnostics tab, your throttle shows 0-100 travel. Mine has always been configured that way. My Kolibri will not arm with the SPM9645 (this is important later) unless the throttle travel is -7.

More testing (can I get it to arm with my Spektrum transmitter):

1) I haven't found a way to see the PWM output for a given servo travel setting in Airwave so I attempted an educated guess. Based on an article I found online on Spektrum receivers, the Mid should be 1500us to 1520us depending on the rx. A little math gave me the travel I'd need to set the transmitter to to output roughly 966us that my Horus sent.

2) I set my Spektrum transmitter to a low throttle travel of 112

3) I powered up the Kolibri, Spirit2, SPM9645 with a flight pack and.... It armed. Interesting...

This has me wondering.... Does the Spirit2 simply pass the throttle signal from the receiver through to the esc? OR... Does the Spirit2 look for a specific low throttle PWM before it will send any signal to the esc. If the Spirit2 does pass the throttle signal through, is there some scaling factor that may be shifting what the esc is seeing. Admittedly, this is just a wild theory but it might explain why the esc will now arm without any changes to the PWM range in the throttle setting on the Spirit2. The only PWM change was on the transmitter.

If only I had an oscilloscope to see... Santa... If you're listening... Of course unless there is a scaling issue, this doesn't explain why the servo I plugged into Aux1 on the Spirit2 worked.

More testing (With the new throttle travel, will it work with the SPM4651T):

1) I replaced the SPM9645 with the original SPM4651T, Bound the SPM4651T to my Spektrum transmitter (same model, same settings).

2) I powered up the Spirit2 and SPM4651T with a receiver pack and configured the Spirit2 to use SRXL2. Settings saved successfully. I powered down.

3) I powered up and set the Spirit2 Throttle channel to channel 1. Saved settings. All servos worked normally. I powered it down.

4) I powered up the Kolibri,Spirit2,SPM4651T with a flight pack. Even with the throttle travel set to the same low setting I used successfully with the SPM9645, the esc wouldn't arm, no tones single flashing light.

So maybe there are a couple of issues? Maybe the Spirit is expecting a specific PWM range from the receiver before it will arm the throttle? Maybe the SPM4651T and the SPM9645 receivers produce different outputs at any given throttle position?

Going to try another 4651T next.

All thoughts and insights are greatly appreciated. I do hope that others are finding this as interesting as I am.

-Eric

[ZeXx86]

Hello,

it should not matter what receiver is connected unless channels are working.
From that point you should get same results with all Spektrum radios.

Spirit will translate range from all radios and all brands to its own that is defined in the Throttle Range settings.

So even if the radio will output 1000 - 2000us and in the Diagnostic tab you will see 0 - 100% range exactly, it will be in the range that was set in Throttle Range Min, Max.

It is possible that the ESC will not arm if throttle signal is not in the right range from the beginning. So even if you are changing the values, it will not arm anymore.
So maybe changing the range, saving the settings and then repowring will help.

To increase chance ESC will arm it is better to set Min. value lower than higher. So Min. value at 900 - 1000us might be successful.

[Mattes61]

Hello Eric,

I have an question, have you another esc than Kontronik Kolibri ?
For the sake of interest, I would try on your behalf how another ESC behaves - I know that Castle Creation and Kosmik sometimes show these symptoms, that the signal is not put through to the controller at the right time - Maybe someone else can say more about it - possibly the signal is visible too late for the ESC and is then ignored, I mean I have already read something about it, this is just a hint, maybe you can look specifically for it on the Internet, maybe you will find what you are looking for - I wish you that in each case !

greeting
Matthias