RTH FlyAway

[Docheli]

Hello Thomas,

today i tried my TRex 600 after i changed some settings. Flight Style 8 and AutoLanding on Default 25 %. Vertikal Gain from 70 to 50. Wobbling over Nick Axis is Not yet existing actually. RTH and Pos.hold very good
But on the second flight i had a odd behaviour. By switching RTH the Heli climbs Up without Limits, the Limit is 10m, and flies straight away from me.

I tried it second time with same result.

What's the problem here ?


I don‘t want to nerve you but i will be sure the system reacts as i did the settings because with a Heli a flyaway can cause serious damage.

Thanks

Markus

[ZeXx86]

Hello,

the problem could happen if you are using Bank Switching. Then you can program different RTH position for a different bank.
Or when Channel for RTH has a lower value it could activate different mode of RTH. For example RTH mode 4 will return to lift off position instead of programmed position.

Unfortunately without a settings I can only guess what could be wrong

[Docheli]

I don‘t use bank switching. I prefer channel settings.

I have RTH programmed in mode 4 ( system recognize lift off position ).

I will send the file when i have the heli in the house.

I‘m wondering why the first flight was nearly perfect. Then i changed only the flight battery while the receiver battery was not interrupted from the system.

[ZeXx86]

If you are using only mode 4 then it could be caused possibly by unwanted changed to other mode.
This could in theory happen if it is set by some potentiometer or if there is signal drifting. For example if just 1% makes change between these modes, it could later switch to programmed RTH point due to this signal/channel drifting.
So finding % more away from the other mode will fix it.

Another potential issue is due to too long run on the single pack.
It is recommended to actually disconnect battery before each flight. The longer the unit is running the more temperature inside will change which affects all sensors. In a certain situation (for example due to usage of ESC fan or a wind) unit is unable to compensate for temperature difference. This could have impact on precision of stabilisation/rescue. While almost all GeoLink features are based on these two features. It could be resolved if you will find real cause for the problem, unfortunately it is only guessing since I dont know what model was doing all the time between when it worked and when it was not working. Because everything that is happening to the model between is affecting potentially precision of the features as there are very complex calculations.
So to avoid a potential problems it is always better to repower whole electronics and let it initialize before each flight. This is also helpful for receiver actually where possible channel drifts are corrected as well.

Unfortunately I will need more informations to help more. For example with logs it can be much easier to find the real issue.

[Docheli]

Hello Tomas,

thanks for the reply.
Here is my ds file. The only thing i changed today i increased the AutoLanding velocity from 25 to 35%.
I will do another try today.

Best regards

Markus

TRex 600 vom 7.10.2022.4ds

(255 Bytes) Downloaded 53 times

[Docheli]

Hello Tomas,

today i tried my TRex 700 on the GeoLink functions.

In the first flight all went well. Pos. hold was nearly perfect, RTH the same and Auto Landing also ok.

Then i disconnected and repowered the receiver, connected new flight battery and went again flying with a delay about 8 minutes.
In this flight i had the same odd behaviour as i had a day ago on my TRex 600 on the second flight accu pack. On RTH the Heli climbed without limits and the same on Auto Landing, the heli climbed.
As you told me to look at the range for activating RTH Mode 4 it is safe in the middle between the other modes.

Here is the video from the first flight where everything was fine. I send it to you via PM.


And here is the video from the second flight with the FlyAway behaviour. Also send by PM.

The videos i sent are on my private location. Therefore i sent it to you as PM.

And here is the settings file from the TRex 700.

TRex 700 8.10.2022 Settings.4ds

(255 Bytes) Downloaded 77 times

My humble opinion is there is a problem with overheating the circuit in the GeoLink or a lot of informations that cannot be processed from the unit.
None of my GeoLink V2 units runs reliable. From time to time they are functioning quite well but the one on my TRex 450 is useless. It never functions correctly. Perhaps theres a problem with the batch of the GPS modul?
So i'm satisfied with the Spirit FBL but not with the GeoLink functions because there is no consistency in the reactions. And therefore i cannot
rely upon the system.
It would be interesting if a new module has the same behaviour.

Thanks

Markus

[ZeXx86]

Hello,

thank you very much for the videos.
Can you describe what is different between first and next flights?
Are you disconnecting battery/BEC to the unit before each flight?

What I recommend to try is to temporarily disable GeoLink logging feature if it is enabled.
Also if you are using more features at the same time, then for the easier testing it is best to set only one function of the GeoLink and test only this feature. So all other GeoLink features are not set in the Channels window and Aid Tab. More functions are configured, the higher count of possible factors that could affect it and harder to find real issue.

All GeoLink v2 are from the very same batch and all are tested before shipping. From the whole batch we found only one which had laser sensor measurement out of tolerance. But it had no impact on performance, but it was replaced of course.
The only difference could ba caused by GeoLink firmware, because there are 3 different and each GeoLink could be shipped with different one depending on when it was ordered. But it can be easily updated to the latest 1.3.2.

In GeoLink modules there is nothing that could overheat. For example Spirit units have much higher temperature and power draw when compared.
But it is very interesting finding the problem is related to time.

If you have a logging feature in your radio it would be very helpful to obtain the logs. Or if you have Spirit GT then realtime log could be even more helpful to find what is happening.

Could you check Status LED light of the GeoLink in the next flights?

[Docheli]

Hello,

thank you very much for the videos.
Can you describe what is different between first and next flights?

The main difference is that in the first video the GeoLink operates at normal functions > Pos. hold ok, RTH ok, AutoLanding ok

and in the second video the heli climbs away by switching RTH and the same on AutoLanding

Are you disconnecting battery/BEC to the unit before each flight?

Yes. As you advised i disconnected it before every new flight.

What I recommend to try is to temporarily disable GeoLink logging feature if it is enabled.

OK. I will do this

Also if you are using more features at the same time, then for the easier testing it is best to set only one function of the GeoLink and test only this feature. So all other GeoLink features are not set in the Channels window and Aid Tab. More functions are configured, the higher count of possible factors that could affect it and harder to find real issue.

I use three features. RTH, AutoLanding, Position Hold

All GeoLink v2 are from the very same batch and all are tested before shipping. From the whole batch we found only one which had laser sensor measurement out of tolerance. But it had no impact on performance, but it was replaced of course.

Good to hear that all are from the same batch

The only difference could ba caused by GeoLink firmware, because there are 3 different and each GeoLink could be shipped with different one depending on when it was ordered. But it can be easily updated to the latest 1.3.2.

All my GeoLinks are updated to 1.3.2. from the day you announced the update

In GeoLink modules there is nothing that could overheat. For example Spirit units have much higher temperature and power draw when compared.

That sounds logical.

But it is very interesting finding the problem is related to time.

i think related on time between the flights.

If you have a logging feature in your radio it would be very helpful to obtain the logs. Or if you have Spirit GT then realtime log could be even more helpful to find what is happening.

I have Spirit GTR. How can i send you the logs? I thought if you have the .ds file then you can see automatically the logs.

Could you check Status LED light of the GeoLink in the next flights?[/quote]

When you looked at my videos to the very end i always filmed the status led and the led was always solid blue.


Thanks

[Dr.Fleming]

We have two Helis in our Club with the same issue FW 3.43 one with GL V1 and the other with GL V2,
one Heli with Futaba and the other with Spektrum.
On the Heli with Futaba I lowered the RTH altitude from 30m to 20 m, after that was working, I don't know
next weekend, and I don't know what have the altitude setup with the compass in common.
On the function altitude limit, on the second flight the same, the function get crazy catching the Hel¡s 4 times earlier around 15-20 meters ,than the altitude setup before.
That makes impossible to flight with the function altitude limit activated.
We can confirm that there is no consistency and reliability with the GL and or the Barometer from the SPIRIT GT

Hello Tomas,

today i tried my TRex 700 on the GeoLink functions.

In the first flight all went well. Pos. hold was nearly perfect, RTH the same and Auto Landing also ok.

Then i disconnected and repowered the receiver, connected new flight battery and went again flying with a delay about 8 minutes.
In this flight i had the same odd behaviour as i had a day ago on my TRex 600 on the second flight accu pack. On RTH the Heli climbed without limits and the same on Auto Landing, the heli climbed.
As you told me to look at the range for activating RTH Mode 4 it is safe in the middle between the other modes.

Here is the video from the first flight where everything was fine. I send it to you via PM.


And here is the video from the second flight with the FlyAway behaviour. Also send by PM.

The videos i sent are on my private location. Therefore i sent it to you as PM.

And here is the settings file from the TRex 700.

TRex 700 8.10.2022 Settings.4ds

My humble opinion is there is a problem with overheating the circuit in the GeoLink or a lot of informations that cannot be processed from the unit.
None of my GeoLink V2 units runs reliable. From time to time they are functioning quite well but the one on my TRex 450 is useless. It never functions correctly. Perhaps theres a problem with the batch of the GPS modul?
So i'm satisfied with the Spirit FBL but not with the GeoLink functions because there is no consistency in the reactions. And therefore i cannot
rely upon the system.
It would be interesting if a new module has the same behaviour.

Thanks

Markus

[ZeXx86]

Hello,

it is very important that there is no ESC fan from the HobbyWing on your helicopter. This is what you said is on the model.
When there is ESC fan then half of the features might not work properly in the Spirit unit, because unit thinks motor is running as it produces a lot of vibrations.
GeoLink and also Spirit unit is for example also starting logging depending on this measurement when motor is on and off depending on vibration level.
And it also calculate lift off altitude. So if you are using the ESC fan then it is unable to measure lift off altitude and then all functions such as Altitude Limit, RTH (altitude maintaining) or Auto Landing will not work properly, because it can`t know where 0 meter altitude actually is.

Altitude Limit and all GeoLink altitude functions are based mainly on GPS/GNSS measurement so it does not matter if barometer is imprecise or precise. However it use 3 different altitude readings from different sensors to be very precise. But none will work well if there is no moment when model is calm - If Vibration Level is not 0% before motor is started.

Also if you are using the ESC fan with so high vibrations then GeoLink and Spirit unit logging will not work correctly too.

HobbyWing and some very cheap ESC fans are unfortunately not balanced and are producing vibrations like a running motor.
You can check the Vibration Level in the RealTime logging or telemetry.

4ds files carry only settings of the unit, but Spirit GT and GTR can record thousands of logs from actual flights. If you can provide them then it is possible to see what the unit see.

Altitude Limit should engage faster than what is set in case the model is flying fast, depending on how Triggering Acceleration parameter is set. So it can engage in 30 meters instead of 20 meters for example to avoid crash in high speed. Because in high speed model require more time to recover.

Dr. Fleming: It seems that all your problems could be caused by this, because for you also RealTime logging does not work properly which is clear sign that something is wrong with the ESC fan. So if you are using ESC fan, please retry it without ESC fan.