Afraid to fly, settings reversed
Also subtrims are not used until the unit is initialized. For a correct comparison you have to enable Subtrim (tuning) in the software.
Spirit System developer
Do you mean that all 3 pictures show the moment the swash is level? Yes/No? Yes, after setting are saved to unit.
And between each picture you restarted the FBL? Yes/No? Yes
Did you restart the software beween each of the 3 pictures? Yes/No? Yes
Those pictures are showing the status of the subtrim settings after initializing unit, starting software, going to servo page, clicking subtrim box and adjusting to level swashplate. Settings are saved, unit powered down, wait a few then power on. Swashplate is no longer level, so repeat process. Heli is moved as little as possible during this process Note that subtrim values are not changing during power cycle, but rather the servos are not initializing to the same position.
Transmitter is used for several airplanes and a Trex450, along with this Trex600ESP. No problem such as this appear with any of the planes or Trex450 after making sure I have selected correct model in transmitter, which I do before applying power to whichever machine I am flying. Trex450 swashplate levels out at same position every time I power it on. I just put the original receiver back in Trex600ESP and after leveling swashplate, it comes up level after each power cycle, so that tells me that transmitter is not causing issue. I would find it extremely doubtful that servos are causing issue as they work fine with the Spectrum receiver. Since heli operates normally with that receiver, that would tend to rule out mechanical problems.
As I have re-installed the original receiver and cannot duplicate issue with it, then it would seem to leave only find one possible explanation as to what is wrong.
Just went back through process using a liquid level to make sure heli was sitting properly and same thing happens, some amount of subtrim is needed to get back to level. That would seem to rule out tilt of heli having anything to do with issue. It is never the same servo(s) or amount that changes.
And between each picture you restarted the FBL? Yes/No? Yes
Did you restart the software beween each of the 3 pictures? Yes/No? Yes
Those pictures are showing the status of the subtrim settings after initializing unit, starting software, going to servo page, clicking subtrim box and adjusting to level swashplate. Settings are saved, unit powered down, wait a few then power on. Swashplate is no longer level, so repeat process. Heli is moved as little as possible during this process Note that subtrim values are not changing during power cycle, but rather the servos are not initializing to the same position.
Transmitter is used for several airplanes and a Trex450, along with this Trex600ESP. No problem such as this appear with any of the planes or Trex450 after making sure I have selected correct model in transmitter, which I do before applying power to whichever machine I am flying. Trex450 swashplate levels out at same position every time I power it on. I just put the original receiver back in Trex600ESP and after leveling swashplate, it comes up level after each power cycle, so that tells me that transmitter is not causing issue. I would find it extremely doubtful that servos are causing issue as they work fine with the Spectrum receiver. Since heli operates normally with that receiver, that would tend to rule out mechanical problems.
As I have re-installed the original receiver and cannot duplicate issue with it, then it would seem to leave only find one possible explanation as to what is wrong.
Just went back through process using a liquid level to make sure heli was sitting properly and same thing happens, some amount of subtrim is needed to get back to level. That would seem to rule out tilt of heli having anything to do with issue. It is never the same servo(s) or amount that changes.
Thanks for the update.
What servos are you using?
Measuring with bubble wrap is very inprecise, you should level the swashplate with cyclic leveler.
Stock align servos or savox 257mg or similar has very small resolution and play, so it is virtually impossible to achieve very same deviation. But it depends on how big it is.
Receiver can't change anything about subtrims. It is really important to make measurements correctly - only when subtrim (tuning) is enabled.
What servos are you using?
Measuring with bubble wrap is very inprecise, you should level the swashplate with cyclic leveler.
Stock align servos or savox 257mg or similar has very small resolution and play, so it is virtually impossible to achieve very same deviation. But it depends on how big it is.
Receiver can't change anything about subtrims. It is really important to make measurements correctly - only when subtrim (tuning) is enabled.
Spirit System developer
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Hi miroker,miroker wrote: Those pictures are showing the status of the subtrim settings after initializing unit, starting software, going to servo page, clicking subtrim box and adjusting to level swashplate.
taking a close look at your pictures, two things catched my eyes:
1. "subtrim_01.png" and "subtrim_02.png" do not differ very much.
2. In all 3 pictures AIL(Ch1) has not changed.
Only ELE(CH2) and PIT(CH3) have changed.
This brings me to one question:
Is this 2. observation consistent through all your attempts to level the swash?
If so, than I would suggest an experiment:
Swap the (CH1) and (CH3)!
This will reverse some settings, but I don't care about this at the moment. (just don't fly)
i.e.
what is now in CH1 -> plug into CH3
what is now in CH3 -> plug into CH1
Than provide us with similar 3 pictures as above.
What servos are you using? - Using Align DS610 Digital servos on cyclic.
Measuring with bubble wrap is very inprecise, you should level the swashplate with cyclic leveler. - Bubble wrap? I used a spirit level to level the heli and secured it to work surface so that would take out any issue regarding position and/of attitude of unit. I have a swashplate level tool on main shaft. If I set swash level when I have the Spectrum receiver in heli and Spirit unit is not connected, swash comes up at same position every time I cycle the power, level with tool.
Now i remove the Spectrum receiver and hook up the Spirit unit, level the swashplate using tool and subtrim in Spirit unit, with heli level and secure to work surface. Save the settings, turn off the unit and now the swash is no longer level to the tool. There is no way that this should be happening, if unit does not move, heli does not move, then position should be same every time power is applied. Is this not correct? It may only be a minor amount, but I can see it with the tool and as far as I am concerned, any deviation is unacceptable. Since I do not have deviation using the Spectrum receiver and Spirit unit disconnected. then right now, process of elimination says any deviation when Spirit unit is in use can only be coming from Spirit unit. Would you not agree?
I am going to install unit using diagram on page 4.3 of manual to see if I get same results, when I get time. I am beginning to suspect there may be an issue with the method as shown on page 4.4 of manual.
If you are suggesting I have servos connected incorrectly, remember that I had the heli in the air before and it worked fine, just after scraping tips of blades away, unit does not seem to be working properly. All control commands are being responded to in correct direction. Changes in the subtrim are not consistent
Measuring with bubble wrap is very inprecise, you should level the swashplate with cyclic leveler. - Bubble wrap? I used a spirit level to level the heli and secured it to work surface so that would take out any issue regarding position and/of attitude of unit. I have a swashplate level tool on main shaft. If I set swash level when I have the Spectrum receiver in heli and Spirit unit is not connected, swash comes up at same position every time I cycle the power, level with tool.
Now i remove the Spectrum receiver and hook up the Spirit unit, level the swashplate using tool and subtrim in Spirit unit, with heli level and secure to work surface. Save the settings, turn off the unit and now the swash is no longer level to the tool. There is no way that this should be happening, if unit does not move, heli does not move, then position should be same every time power is applied. Is this not correct? It may only be a minor amount, but I can see it with the tool and as far as I am concerned, any deviation is unacceptable. Since I do not have deviation using the Spectrum receiver and Spirit unit disconnected. then right now, process of elimination says any deviation when Spirit unit is in use can only be coming from Spirit unit. Would you not agree?
I am going to install unit using diagram on page 4.3 of manual to see if I get same results, when I get time. I am beginning to suspect there may be an issue with the method as shown on page 4.4 of manual.
If you are suggesting I have servos connected incorrectly, remember that I had the heli in the air before and it worked fine, just after scraping tips of blades away, unit does not seem to be working properly. All control commands are being responded to in correct direction. Changes in the subtrim are not consistent
Thanks,
are you measuring the deviation when Subtrim (tuning) is enabled? Only here you should measure it so anything other can't affect it.
Here you do not need any receiver or something else so it does not matter what transmitter and receiver you are using.
are you measuring the deviation when Subtrim (tuning) is enabled? Only here you should measure it so anything other can't affect it.
Here you do not need any receiver or something else so it does not matter what transmitter and receiver you are using.
Spirit System developer
I would only check subtrim values and verify swash levelness while in the subtrim screen of the programming. Checking it from Tx would not be correct way because the FBL has control of your servos not your Tx. When you connect through rx only then the Tx does have control of your servos and why it acts as you are expecting. Even if table is level I wouldn't expect the swash to be level on initalize. A lot goes on in those algorithims and they are constantly running unless you go into a 'locked' mode like subtrim.
As long as when you reboot and go back to subtrim screen the swash is level as it was before the power cycle, it is correct.
As long as when you reboot and go back to subtrim screen the swash is level as it was before the power cycle, it is correct.
If the unit is in one position and not allowed to move, then why would the system come up with a different servo position every time? If the software is sending the configuration to unit at startup and subtrim settings are constantly needing to be changed to maintain a level swashplate, then sure seems to be an issue with something that is not working properly. I am pretty sure that the gyros in a real airplane or heli do not require such frequent adjustments and if so, then some sort of repair or replacement is performed. If I can see gaps appearing between the swashplate tool and the swashplate after restarting unit, then I consider it an issue. The problem was not there before I introduced the Spirit into mix, so by process of elimination, issue can only be coming from one place.
I have an easy enough time crashing as it is, I do not want to chance some sort of system failure in midair. How can I get my money back?
Duh, who said anything about checking subtrim from transmitter, everything is done through the software when Spirit unit is connected. If the table is level, Spirit is level, subtrims have been set and saved, why would it not be level every time unless there is drift in the software, which brings me right back to: how can I get my money back as I do not want this thing. Should have bought something different to begin with it seems now.
I have an easy enough time crashing as it is, I do not want to chance some sort of system failure in midair. How can I get my money back?
Duh, who said anything about checking subtrim from transmitter, everything is done through the software when Spirit unit is connected. If the table is level, Spirit is level, subtrims have been set and saved, why would it not be level every time unless there is drift in the software, which brings me right back to: how can I get my money back as I do not want this thing. Should have bought something different to begin with it seems now.
There is only problem that you do not understand how flybarless system is working. It is behaving very differently than flybar. Respecively each flybarless system is behaving differently, especially on the ground. It does not matter if it is on the table, on the wall or in any other inclination.
This is very sad, that you don't believe to anybody just you.
You still did not responded to my questions, but that is OK.
If you think that you understand our system better than we are, then there is no way how we can help you.
If you do not want to help anymore, then it is your choice. Normally we are trying to help to all until a problem is sorted, but customer should be open to all possibilities.
You can ask Esprit Model to get money back.
I wish you all the best.
This is very sad, that you don't believe to anybody just you.
You still did not responded to my questions, but that is OK.
If you think that you understand our system better than we are, then there is no way how we can help you.
If you do not want to help anymore, then it is your choice. Normally we are trying to help to all until a problem is sorted, but customer should be open to all possibilities.
You can ask Esprit Model to get money back.
I wish you all the best.
Spirit System developer
Have you even tried going into subtrim after reboot to see if swash goes level?
And the tx comment was about when you used rx only with tx to 'rule spirit' as theb problem since rx wasn't moving swash. Point was that is only because the servos are running straight from tx in that case.
Introduce fbl to the mix and you no longer have control of servos it does. You need to follow each units instructions on how to configure. Many fbl units act funny on bench but fly great.
If you think spirit is bad you'd never fly 3sx with how it can interact on the bench.
And the tx comment was about when you used rx only with tx to 'rule spirit' as theb problem since rx wasn't moving swash. Point was that is only because the servos are running straight from tx in that case.
Introduce fbl to the mix and you no longer have control of servos it does. You need to follow each units instructions on how to configure. Many fbl units act funny on bench but fly great.
If you think spirit is bad you'd never fly 3sx with how it can interact on the bench.